


Salvia_G’s Big Hissy Fit

by Salvia_G



Category: The Hobbit (Jackson Movies), The Hobbit - All Media Types, The Hobbit - J. R. R. Tolkien, The Hobbit RPF
Genre: Essays, Gen, Meta
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 2013-10-19
Updated: 2013-10-19
Packaged: 2017-12-29 20:22:32
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Chapters: 1
Words: 4,343
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/1009670
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/Salvia_G/pseuds/Salvia_G
Summary: <blockquote class="userstuff">
              <p>Salvia_G's Big Hissy Fit:  aka Unsolicited Thoughts, Tips, Advice and Commentary for The Hobbit Fandom on AO3.  A Short Essay on the Quirks and Preferences of one Reader and Writer in the Fandom, Submitted for your Edification and Enjoyment.  Commentary Encouraged but Not Required.  </p><p>Now Edited to Include Clarifications, Additions, and Contrary Arguments from the Comments.</p>
            </blockquote>





	Salvia_G’s Big Hissy Fit

 

This is a list of various practices in the fandom that I see on a reasonably regular basis and that poke at my serenity like children sitting next to each other on a road trip. It is entitled a "Hissy Fit" rather than a "Rant" only because it is meant in the spirit of a Gentle Temper Tantrum rather than a List of Angry Demands. I _hope_ you may find it amusing rather than offensive! I wish I could say 'rather than impertinent,' but as this is in fact _terribly _impertinent of me...I cannot.__

**1\.  Tagging and Summaries**

**A.  Repetitive Tagging**

I only have a limited attention span:  about the same as Fili and Kili while watching ponies.  Please choose tags carefully!  Tagging Bilbo/Fili, Fili/Bilbo, Filibo, Filbo, Fili,  AND Bilbo is unnecessary and makes my head hurt.  Tagging Bilbo/Fili AND Fili/Bilbo _especially_ makes my head hurt.

EDIT: One of the commenters has educated me: this practice (of tagging pairings in multiple ways) may be a carryover from Tumblr, which apparently only pulls up a post if the tag is matched _exactly_. To which I have to say: what a colossal pain! However here, on the lovely AO3:

AO3’s tag search only requires the name be mentioned ONCE for it to come up.  An example for you:  search for “Bilbo Baggins/Dain Ironfoot.”  As of mid-October 2013 when I wrote this, 23 fics come up--but only ONE of them actually has the pairing tagged.  (That fic _happens_ to be mine, and it’s the saddest little broken ship in the fandom, but that’s not _really_ relevant…)  The rest mention Dain’s name alone in the tags or somewhere in the summary (as well as Bilbo’s, of course).   _Your story will not be left behind if you don’t tag every permutation of the tag known to the fandom._

EDIT: Also: as another comment thread mentions: there are now tags that can handle the "there are 13 dwarves in this story and they all (more or less) appear in my story" issue: "Thorin's Company" ( _my_ favorite, just so you know) and "Thorin's Companions." So yay for that, and let's use them! 

_**** _

**B.  Cutesy/Smug/Full Sentence Tags**

Did I mention the limited attention span?  Past three or four lines worth of tags, you’re gonna lose me--and even then I’m skimming them.  So:  “Bilbo is the best dog’s name ever,” “But that’s not what the fic is about,” “Just kidding:  it is about Bilbo the dog!” etc…  All of that is in fact distracting people who might want to read your story, and as mentioned above:  attention span=two hot dwarves watching ponies.  You may have one, and _only_ one, per story.

EDIT: If you read through the comments, there are clearly a number of people who do enjoy these whimsical tags! So I will only request that you use _discretion_ when you use them and please consider the overall number of tags you are using when you do. *pitiful puppy dog eyes*

If you don't, I will consider bringing out the Quivering Pout of Doom. You have been warned.

****

**C.  Concise as Well as Intriguing, Please**

If your tags and summary take the space of my entire computer screen, that is a sign that you have said too much.  Cut out what is not serving any purpose.  Tagging every character in the fic is unnecessary, as is listing chapter titles from 1-152 in your summary.   _Prompt fillers and drabble collectors:  I’m looking at you._

EDIT: Again, commenters have pointed out the usefulness of listing the chapter titles and/or pairings in the summary of a collection of prompt fills or drabbles, as it allows the reader to choose with chapters he or she would care to read; I will concede this point. It is a helpful practice, and I will whine about it no more.

But perhaps an upper limit might be reasonable? I am always grateful for the consideration a writer shows when he or she cuts off the post at some point and begins another volume. And I personally would also appreciate it if a writer with multiple fandoms collects each fandom separately, but I will bow to the wisdom of the community here as well.

****

**D.  Using the Archive Warnings**

Using the Archive warnings or not is a writer’s prerogative, and I couldn’t possibly tell you what to do.  I will say, however, that if you have checked the box for “Major Character Death,” you _may_ want to _uncheck_ the box for “Author Chose Not to Use Archive Warnings,” because you _did_ in _fact_ choose to use an archive warning.

On a related subject, it is perfectly appropriate to warn for chapter-specific issues at the beginning note of the chapter; and I believe for some readers, it is a true kindness when a chapter contains potentially upsetting topics, i.e. “triggers.”  

And please do remember that any permutation of Thorin, Fili, and/or Kili should be tagged “incest,” as while some love it, for some incest is a rather large squick.

****

**E.  Disclaimers**

I think that it is a nice gesture, at least, to acknowledge the debt all of us in the fandom owe those whose creative work we are paying tribute to with our fanworks, but I don’t believe the Tolkien estate or Peter Jackson are going to begin to sue fanfiction writers and artists for residuals. But why not say (in a beginning note before the first chapter, perhaps) "thank you, Tolkien and Jackson, you are Da Bomb and your work inspired me to write _this_ work.

Writers of Real People Fiction (RPF), on the other hand:  like it says on the box, those are the names of real people you are using in your story; and sometimes you write them acting in ridiculous, embarrassing, or even criminal ways.  I think _adding a disclaimer to your summary that acknowledges that the story comes completely from your imagination and is in no way meant to represent the actual lives, thoughts or actions of the actual Real People_ is appropriate.

EDIT: If you take a look at the comments, you will see that many (most?) of the commenters who are involved in RPF as readers or writers find this sort of disclaimer unnecessary. And as several pointed out, asking RPF folks to add a disclaimer while not writers of 'verse fanfiction stinks of Unfairness.

I will concede that I may have been unfair (and that my original language above was perhaps just the _oonsiest_ bit judgmental), and for that: I apologize. I am afraid, however, that all arguments for a fair standard have convinced me that it is _more_ important that writers of _all_ fanfiction say "thanks for the inspiration" rather than the opposite idea, that disclaimers are just meaningless. "Thank you" and "You're Welcome" are not meaningless; nor is "I do not intend this as slander." But I have edited my language above to try for more parity in this.

And while we're on the subject...FPF (or Fictional Person Fiction) is used a couple times in the comments to refer to "fanfiction that is not RPF," and it was not something I had ever heard before (I had to ask for a definition). I don't see it over here on the fictional 'verse side of things, and...I think there's a good reason for that. Fanfiction about characters from a story rather than actors who play those characters in a film is not fiction about _people_ , it is fiction about _characters_ ; and that is not the same thing. Calling fictional characters people is to blur the distinction between both--and to me carries the unfortunate connotation that the opposite is true: that _real people_ are the same as fictional characters...and I find that objectifying to those Real People. I suspect that this position is going to make all of you who didn't like the suggestion that a disclaimer is appropriate upset with me all over again...and I am bracing myself for that. *runs for the tornado shelter*

If there must be a designation for "fanfiction that is not Real Person Fiction," may I suggest "FCF," for "Fictional Character Fiction"? Which, I am aware, sounds a little ridiculous; but it's more accurate and less misleading, and my vote would be for clarity and accuracy. I intend to continue using the more general fanfiction when referring to my work or the work of others that is not RPF, but clearly to some it is a useful term to have. So I Humbly Offer This Option Instead.

****

**F.  Tag Your Art**

While some in the fandom do this, not everyone who posts his or her artwork tags it as such; and so someone wanting to look at the pretty pictures isn’t going to _pull_ all the pretty pictures in a search for “art,” because some of them are not labelled as such.  Please do tag for art!

The corollary, tag for fiction, is _not_ true:  most of what is posted is fiction; that is the assumption we all will make.  Don’t add an irrelevant tag.  Meta- or Non-Fiction or Essays, on the other hand:  go ahead and tag for those too.

****

**G.  Asking for Positive Only Comments:**

There’s no way to do this without looking desperate.  I wish there were, but there _just isn’t_.  Feel free to ask for constructive criticism only, however; and please feel free to do so as an end note _inside_ your fic.

EDIT: Several people commented that this is an innocuous practice that doesn't harm anyone, and they are correct as far as that goes. I will however add this to my previous comment: I (and according to the comments, some portion of other readers) am likely to skip a fic with such a request rather than read it... It's not a harm, precisely; but would you _like_ us to read your story? I might like it if I did, but you're Scaring Me because it seems to suggest that _you_ don't think your story is good. And general practice in the fandom seems to be to not leave a comment rather than leave a negative comment. But if you would be too scared to post your story without that request at the top...I would rather you post it, so carry on as necessary.

****

**H.  Free Form**

While we’re on the subject, I have no idea what this means, but I see it in tags all the time.  Could someone please enlighten me?

EDIT: Apparently (thank you for the education, commenters!) this could mean a few things, but mostly is used to distinguish between a tag that might refer to more than one thing--i.e. a character whose name is also the name of a fandom, or a generic noun that is also the proper name of a fandom. In _The Hobbit,_ Ori associated with this that I think I see the most; and I can see the necessity, because if I were searching for stories from a specific fandom and kept coming up with stories that included a character from a different fandom as well, I would find that annoying. So Now We Know.

And if you are using it in some different way, for the love of Tolkien, maybe you could explain the difference to me? Because as confusion is my General State of Being, I seek clarity and understanding whenever possible!

****

**2\. Dwarf v. dwarf v. dwarrow**

It doesn’t matter; it really doesn’t:  just be _consistent_.  Though “dwarrow” does net you points for coolness.  And in my view, “dwarrowdam” as well, even if it is a word invented by the fandom instead of Tolkien.  But whichever word you use or whether you capitalize or not...be consistent, please.

EDIT: Two points here: several commenters pointed out that I forget to mention that "dwarrow" is the PLURAL form of dwarf, so writers should keep that in mind when using it. But please _do_ continue to use it; it seems to have been Universally Recognized as Awesome Sauce.

Dwarrowdam, on the other hand: please, everyone gather around to watch me eat crow. I will say in my defense, that the association I always made with it was "dame," the way "madam" might be shortened to "ma'am." But more than one commenter noted that the more obvious association would be with "dam," an animal who is pregnant/given birth/has given birth, so using it implies that dwarves (dwarrow!) are beasts.

 **OUCH.** And mea culpa.

I _am_ left wondering where it originally came from (though the source _does_ seem to be fanon), and I wonder if anyone knows and would enlighten us?

****

**3\.  Dwarf v. hobbit v. elf v. man**

If you are writing _about_ a dwarf, refer to him (or her) _as_ a dwarf, please.  And I think it goes without saying:  do the same for the other races populating Middle Earth.  Bilbo should not think, “A man like Thorin is irreplaceable,” because _Thorin is not a **man** , he is a **dwarf**._  It’s more challenging if writing about a female character, I realize; but there is nothing wrong with “hobbit girl,” or “female hobbit,” or “the group of hobbit ladies gossiping by the cheese shop.”

EDIT: There were a couple commenters who pointed out that "dwarf" and "man" may be more suited for various situations than others, and the emphasis a writer wants can determine which word is used. In other words: is it more important in a particular scene that Thorin is a dwarf, or that he is male (in which case, man may be an appropriate choice)?

Judyare offered this concise explanation of her practice, which I have copied here for all of our edification:

_In my case, it's why I capitalize the races. Thorin is a man but not a Man. Bilbo is a man but not a Man. Legolas is a man but not a Man. Eowyn, on the other hand, is a Man. She's just not a man. And Bard, of course, is both a man and a Man. I would classify this way: Bungo and Belladonna Baggins are a Hobbit man and woman. Thorin and Dís are a Dwarf man and woman. Legolas and Tauriel are an Elf man and woman. Eowyn and Eomer are a Man man and woman._

Thank you, Judyare!

So there is some freedom to do what you think best suits. I remain in favor of "dwarf" rather than "man" whenever possible, but it seems that a strong argument can be made that either is an acceptable choice...though "Man" (or whichever race) should, when capitalized, only be used to designate race rather than gender; and capitalizing race while gender is lower-case seems to me a good way to clarify meaning. 

****

**4\.  British Spelling**

Is Very Cool, but Not Required.  InjaMorgan taught me that Word has a function under the tool menu (labelled “language,” so it’s not _completely obvious_ to some of us idiots) which one may use to switch from English(US) to English(UK) or English(Australian) or Japanese or any other of a hundred choices--so that Word will check for the correct spelling for the selected language.

Also:  despite what your spell checker will tell you in any dialect:  the correct spelling according to Tolkien’s preferences is “dwarves,” not “dwarfs” and “elves,” not “elfs.”  But really, you are all very good at this, so kudos to you!

Don’t ask me what the Australians spell differently than Americans or Brits; I don’t know.  Australians in the fandom?   _Inquiring minds want to know._

EDIT: Two Australians (thank you!) have informed me that Australians use British spelling without any exception that they know of--excluding the possibility of slang. And also, apparently instead of a Labour Party there is a Labor Party. So there is a difference, but it seems to be very small. I am still grateful for the option to spell check for British English rather than American; and according to the comments, Very Cool but Not Required seems to be a consensus opinion.

****

**5\.  Commenting**

A.  Please do!  It makes writers so happy, and happy writers write more!  It does not have to be a long comment (though please don’t apologize if it is; I _love_ those)--just do so!  And when you do comment...

B.  Please _be polite_ , even if you are expressing The Fury of a Teenage Girl Denied Permission to Go Out With Her Friends on a School Night.  Remember that tone doesn’t translate well in writing, so _please_ be Extra Double _Super-Duper_ Polite.

C.  If you have to write something along the lines of:  “I don’t mean to be offensive…”  STOP.  There is _no way_ what you are about to say will _not_ be offensive, not if you realize you have to justify your intention.  Go back and rewrite it in such a way as to not offend.  I like to imagine that I am channeling Lady Violet, Dowager Countess of Downton or Caroline Bingley.   _The one who can make his or her point most politely is the one who wins_ , IMHO.

D.  Hiding behind Anon in order to leave a critical comment is therefore rendered unnecessary, because you have expressed your disagreement in a perfectly acceptable and socially beneficial way.

****

**For Writers, on The Subject of Comments**

**A.  Be Grateful!**

So few readers comment!  On one of my stories with over 1500 hits, there are 23 comments,  and some of _those_ are my responses to those who commented.  That’s a ratio of approximately one comment from every 100 readers!  And even if the comment strikes you the wrong way… take a deep breath, remember that this person has been so affected by your writing as to want to respond...and then remember to be grateful and that _the most polite person wins._

****

**B.  Do Reply to Comments.**

As stated above, very few readers comment, so it is the least a writer can do to acknowledge that comment.  And I have found that I learn the most fascinating things from my readers, who see aspects of a piece of writing that I do not, or who have a relevant life experience, or who are simply lovely and intelligent people.  I gain far more from each comment than the small cost of time and effort to respond.

****

**C.  Try Not to Take It Personally.**

Generally, a comment that seems negative is not meant to be so, or at least, is not _meant_ to be hurtful.  Take a big step back from your precious baby (and each piece of writing _is_ a precious baby) and try to respond graciously.  Say it with me:   _the most polite person wins._  If you are still upset, don’t reply immediately, but do reply eventually.  And engage the person who has commented on the issue raised in the comment; people like to be taken seriously and treated with respect; and in my experience, treating others’ opinions respectfully usually evokes the same respect in return.  Usually.

****

**D.  If It’s Hateful, on the Other Hand…**

There’s that “delete” button.  It’s not just for Chinese spam.

****

_This is such a lovely fandom, and I would love to see it continue that way, but nothing will kill a fandom’s sparkly rainbows faster than a nasty comment war.  Don’t silence your voice!  But please remember: **the most polite person wins**.  And other people do read these things, and form opinions based on what they read._

****

**6\.  Works In Progress**

I am unsure how to address this; they occur in every fandom, and as difficult as it may be to see a potentially lovely story wither…  I don’t think the pitchforks are helping anything.  Polite and caring inquiries into the writer’s well-being or a note letting the writer know you have enjoyed the story thus far and hope to see more at some point, yes.  But threats or demands are not appropriate, and begging is only attractive when it’s an adorable hobbit/hot dwarf/ethereal elf tied to the bedposts.  In the end, we may just have to let go of the beautiful unfulfilled possibilities of some WIPs.  As the immortal poet Sting sings, “If you love someone, set them free.”

****

**To the Writers of WIPs:**

We love you and miss you and hope you will come back to us someday!  If you need support, I think that it’s not hard to find someone to encourage you; check your comments for someone who _clearly_ loves your story and would do ANYTHING to see it completed!  If you’re stuck, keep writing, even if it means that you have to turn to something else for a time.  There are many wonderful books and blogs that offer advice and support to writers of any level.  I particularly like Anne Lamott’s _Bird by Bird_.  

If you’re never coming back to a story and you know it, it’s only polite to edit the summary to note that the fic is “Abandoned.”  We will then be able to mourn and move on.  Perhaps you might consider putting the story up for adoption.  If you’re done with it, why not let someone else see if he or she can finish the fic?

If your story is a WIP because you’ve written over 50 chapters and just can’t seem to end it... _seek help_.  Ending _this_ story will allow you to _begin a new one_.

If you’ve left the fandom...I have _no_ idea what to say to you:   _The Hobbit_ is an unparalleled classic of British literature, Peter Jackson’s films are epic, and (have I said this before?) the dwarves are _hot_ and the hobbit is _adorable_.   _Get back here and finish up your story_.

****

**And finally, Repeat Offenders:**

We love you, and here I have decided begging is appropriate:  we beg you to _finish_ your stories _before_ you begin to post them, or to discipline yourself to writing a bit on one of your current WIPs each day (or however often you are able to carve away a bit of writing time), or BOTH.  The hot dwarves and adorable hobbit and your many, many fans and readers will THANK YOU.

****

_I would like to give a particular shout out to **Zirakinbar** on this topic, whose “A Hobbit’s Worth” was last updated 14 February 2013, and I fell in **love** with it.  I would sell my children to have this fic finished, and I am not the only one.  We would like to have you back, dear!  _

EDIT: I have been informed on the down low *shh* that Zirakinbar has had computer/internet access problems, so not to give up hope! We're rooting for you, Zirakinbar!

_And then I’m moving on to the rest of you I’m waiting for..._

EDIT: _Which means I'm moving on to the next on my list..._

****

**p.s.  Hobbit/Sherlock Crossovers:**

As a fan of both and reader in both fandoms:  I just don’t get you!  As Martin Freeman said when asked what his characters in The Hobbit and Sherlock have in common:  “The same actor plays both characters.”  Otherwise...not so much.

Lots of folks, however, _do_ seem to like what you’re doing; so I would never tell you to stop doing it!  And _neither should anyone else tell someone to stop writing his or her story_ , no matter how strange or offensive the story seems to the reader.  As the lovely ManhattanMom says, “There’s the back button, people.”

Not everyone will love every story, and the beauty of this Archive is that writers can share their stories with the world, and perhaps there will be someone out there who will want to read just what you have written.

********  
  


And I love you all, _including_ those of you who scoff in the face of my foibles and continue to do as you please without regard for _my_ personal preferences, and I thank you for the gift of this _Hobbit_ -obsessed community.  My life (and that of many others) would not be the same without you.

****

May your dreams be full of hobbits and the hot dwarves that love them,

Salvia_G

**EDIT: Some Other Things That Came Up in the Comments:**

**Formatting:**

If your post has no paragraphs, it is very hard to read and as a result you are driving away potential readers in droves. DROVES. You might want to preview its appearance and fix that! If you're not sure how, try clicking the "Real Text" button rather than the default "HTML" before you paste in your text. (These are found on the top right of the "Work Text" box.) And be aware that even if you did this in your original post, if you come back to edit the text will now be in HTML--so be careful not to mess up your formatting.

**Correct Spelling and Grammar:**

We likes it; we do!

But consensus seems to be that anyone in the fandom whose native language is not English--but is still posting fics and comments--YOU are ALL Awesome Sauce. And so we cut y'all a little more slack in these departments, and we WANT YOU IN THIS FANDOM. So please do not feel self-conscious, though it's probably a good idea to continue to let readers know if you are one of those people. NOT TO MENTION, many if not most of you seem to have _better_ grammar and spelling than some of us native speakers.

NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKERS WHO DO NOT DO THEIR VERY BEST TO USE CORRECT GRAMMAR AND SPELLING, NEGLECT TO SEEK OUT A BETA IF HELP IS NEEDED, OR GENERALLY SEEM NOT TO CARE IF YOUR STORIES CONTAIN LOTS AND LOTS OF MISTAKES: we are Very Annoyed with you.

**Accents and the Use Thereof in Fanfiction:**

Attempts to portray an accent using non-standard spelling (and sometimes grammar) are best left to the professionals. It is _Very_ Hard to Do Well. If you _must_ , please do so _sparingly_. My personal opinion is that no one but J. K. Rowling should try it. (Or as one commenter pointed out, Mark Twain.)

**Author's Note:**

> I would love to have others add their thoughts, whether they are suggestions for improving stories, or little things that irk you or anything in between. But please do remember to be polite about it, because your squick could be someone else’s OTP. I'm pretty sure mine is.


End file.
